How to Deeply Love and Accept People (Including Yourself) || with Carol Lynn Pearson

I had a personal experience earlier this year that led me to realizing I was deeply exhausted, and seeing the affects of it in several areas of my life. In particular I noticed that my, like many of our, relationships had taken a beating. Whether that is with family, friends, co-workers, or even the relationship we have with ourselves.

I invited my friend, author Carol Lynn Pearson, to return to the podcast to discuss all things relationships. She is a woman who has changed thousands of lives through her story, and storytelling. One of those lives is mine. In this conversation she teaches us how to deeply love and accept people, including yourself.

About a few other things...

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SHOW NOTES
Carol Lynn's Website
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Foundational course, “Finding Me.”
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Songs Credit: Pleasant Pictures Music Club

TRANSCRIPT

Monica: Carol Lynn Pearson is so wonderful to have you back

Carol Lynn: oh. Well, Monica, it is wonderful to be with you to see you. How I have missed you.

Monica: The same is true here. I'm honored. To be your friend. I'm, I'm honored to, to be able to see who you are in person. It's a lot of what we're actually gonna be talking about and how you live out, what, what you are known for, you know, with your words and, and your advocacy and, and your activism and things that you do for people.

But I'm especially eager to talk about something I've learned from you today that I think my community really needs to learn.

Carol Lynn: I, I can't wait to learn what you have learned from me, haha

Monica: Well among many, many things, one thing I've learned from you is how to deeply love and accept people. You are so good at this and I think it is so hard to do, and. It somehow, it's hardest to do with the people who are closest to us within our, the walls of our own home or within our neighborhoods, our, our church communities.

So let's start there. Let's, let's start with, you know, how relationships are, what life is all about, but they're what challenges us the most too. And I wanted to know from you and your perspective what you think are the biggest problems that we are facing in having deeply loving, accepting, fulfilling relationships.

Carol Lynn: Hm. Well, to start this off, I guess I would say that the most difficult thing about any relationship that is that the other person is the other and is not ourselves. And it, it would-

Monica: So disappointing.

Carol Lynn: would be so easy. You know, if, if everybody that we knew was just a slightly different version of ourselves, that would make things so easy. But all of us just smash into relationships that we have to have and or relationships that we want to have where that other person is just not what they're supposed to be. Anybody who knows me knows my, I guess my signature story that I was married for 12 years to a gay man. Now that just saying that presents a problem in in relationship.

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Carol Lynn: And so, and of course I, I knew that that was our challenge going into this, but, you know, we, we had not been taught the right things, about what homosexuality is all about and that it's an actual thing and not just a sin. So that might have been the, the most challenging relationship that taught me that you can't just love the people who are like you.

Monica: Yeah.

Carol Lynn: And in this particular case, through many years of, of challenge, I, I did come to the place where I, I forgave my husband and then my ex-husband as he became for not being what I wanted. And and I think that, that that same principle probably holds to everyone.

It is kind of like you, you pull back as the camera does, and, and we see everybody in their natural habitat of their own personality, their own way of doing things. And I think if we have a concept, we'll call it divine, call it God, call it anything you want or are just plain expansive humanity. That, that we just understand that every person is unique in a lot of ways. And so what right do we have to want them to be some kind of slightly varied mirror image of us because everyone on this planet, you know, we are all created whatever force there is that that moves things along.

And so I, I think to have reverence for that fact

Monica: Yeah.

Carol Lynn: sort of makes us look at other people and say, Wow, this is an interesting phenomenon that nature or God has produced here, but it's sacred. It, you know, it's not, it's not for me to judge who this person is, It's for me to honor who they are.

And of course, use common sense in, in understanding how much we want to relate to various people. But always, and at the same time, just honor them for, for who they are and sit back and say, Wow, isn't that an interesting human being? So that's about all I can say about that one. Monica.

Monica: I think the way you've lived it out speaks volumes, truly. And if people want to know more about that story between you and your former husband, it's Goodbye. I love you, is the book they need to read. The thing about that though, that really struck me, what you just said is the acceptance piece to it.

The acceptance of the person, acceptance of just life in general, that we're not all going to be the same. I, I was curious to hear more about that. You can talk about that relationship in particular or any other, where that's been the biggest shift maker is starting with the acceptance. Like the acceptance is what could lead to love.

Carol Lynn: Yeah. Well all of us who have children have come to understand that, that they come with their own framework of who they are. And yes, we have given them our genetic material. We have given them our best ideas and stories and training and all of the things that parents want to give, but nevertheless, they're gonna surprise us.

Every parent will be surprised by what that child turns into. Wonderful surprises and sometimes really startling surprises. And, you know, some of the things that, that get in the way of, of our, our relationships now are, well, what we see in the world, what we see in, in our national scene. Are for free or from every, every person who looks from their own point of view, sees people on the other side who are so who, who just think so wrong,

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Carol Lynn: They're just wrong thinking, Why can't they see and think better? And in, in the final analysis, we have to maintain our own position of what we see and try to display that as honorably as we can and still make room for the people that, that we judge really severely. Now that, you know, that doesn't challenge us so much when it's way over there, the neighbor or the person back east or wherever. But we will find that the same thing with our children. And, and I, I have a child whom I love dearly, who is very different in political perspective. And, with everybody, we have to find the common ground and then be reverent of the differences so that we do not let the differences become the major ground that we walk on. Hmm. Yeah.

Monica: So hard to do in practice too though. But yeah, I, I know what you mean. Like when you actually live this out. When you have the acceptance and curiosity to find the common ground and the respect of the difference, it changes a lot. And I've been curious what that's looked like for you. You know, how does it look to, to accept and love someone who's different from you and what it's given back to you?

Carol Lynn: It's hard. It's hard. Monica

Monica: Yeah. It's just hard.

Carol Lynn: and I, I don't have any magic answers to, to add to, to what I just said, but to, to be sufficiently humble, to say maybe I don't know everything.

Monica: Huh.

Carol Lynn: Maybe this other person, even if it's my child, who ought to be exactly what I program them to be to, to have room that, but in this lifetime, they may have chosen that this is the, this provides the lessons that I need to learn.

And, and, and they're on territory that is valid for them. And, you know, our job, I, I, I think ultimately is to, to look at everybody as somehow walking on sacred ground. And manifesting their own, their own soul as they came into this, this earth. And for us to be humble enough to say, I don't know everything about this person, but you know, all, all, all of us who have any kind of, of a spiritual background in, in our case, you know, Jesus is our example and we have been taught to that in as much as we do to our through the other people in our lives. We are doing that to Christ. and, and maybe for, for anybody who has some kind of spiritual ideal human representative to just keep that in mind and say, Oh, I am called to treat you this strange person who's making all these mistakes.

I could correct if you could only listen to me. I, I am called to, to look at you. the holy person that God or whoever we, we maintain in our minds, see, and boy, that's, that's just not easy,

Monica: And I'm glad that you can be honest about that, cuz that honestly gives me more hope. You know, that it, it's supposed to be, it's supposed to take time. It's going to be challenging, and it doesn't mean we're doing it wrong. It means we have a lot to learn. And if we have that patience, we can have the acceptance and love on the other

Carol Lynn: Yeah. And, and when we're told that we are here to be tested, I don't think it's quite in the way that sometimes we, we perceive that that phrase. We are here to, to be placed in, growing circumstances, and I guess we should be grateful for every new growing circumstance that that comes into our lives, you know, which I'm not, you know, I say, Oh no, not, not another.

Oh, no. And not again. I.

Monica: Yeah.

Carol Lynn: But, but I do have a philosophy that, that we are all here, all, all us, billions. Are here to kind of rattle around here and to, to, to let the good stuff emerge, which ultimately it does, you know, with, with all of the backsliding that society sees from time to time, we're on a better plane than we were, you know, way back in the witch burning days and all, all of that.

So,

Monica: You definitely would've been burned by now if

Carol Lynn: you, you and I would, would be ashes now, Monica.

Monica: Yeah.

Carol Lynn: Yeah. So, so I, I don't know. Just, just to believe that there's something good going on

Monica: Yeah.

Carol Lynn: in general and in specific with, with every person who, who path we do not know. And we have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and look for the divinity in, in.

Monica: So Carolyn, this has been beautiful and helpful, and we're talking a lot about our relationships with others. I think one of the most challenging relationships. Makes it hard for us to put everything we've learned from you and practices our relationship with ourself. I was curious what your thoughts are with that and

Carol Lynn: Oh, lot of you, you just ask the hardest questions, don't you?

Monica: only cuz I need to learn from the expert

Carol Lynn: Oh yeah. Yeah. Hey, that, that's a big error right there. I, I am not an expert. I'm, I'm just a curious person. Just, just wandering around trying to learn this and that, and stumbling and, and, and, and doing learning that I, I can't identify. You know, all of this great stuff that I talk about. I think sometimes it's easier to apply that to somebody else than, than, than to yourself because, you know, there a lot of times that I really disappointed in myself.

There are times that I just don't love myself very much. And in those times I just have to, Well, you know, it's, it is good to be with people who do love me, you know, to kinda let, let, let that, that love in to, to myself. And, and then in order just to say, Okay, I'm, I'm just one of all these people flailing around.

And if you can look past their stumbles, you can certainly look past your own and. I, I guess that's just it. It Monica. It helps me to love myself if I can get up and not just slouch around in my bathroom for a few hours if I can get up and, you know, put a little eyeliner on, put a little mascara on, fix my hair a little bit, and.

Oh, you look pretty good today. You know, you, you can pass, you can pass muster. Honestly, that simple little thing.

Monica: Caring for yourself.

Carol Lynn: though, it is, it helps me to, to, to, to love myself. And you know what? Sometimes when I know I don't, I know I'm not going to even see anybody. I, I put a little perfume on to say, Oh, I, I deserve that.

Oh, now I smell better. Now I look a little better. And you know, it, it certainly, it helps me, Monica, to remember that there are people like you who do love me and, and, and that does help. And, and to remember that there is something, something that we call God, mother, father, God, who, created me in what mysterious way there is. And, and because you know, the best line about God is God is love. And so if, if I was created from love, then I am love. And how dare I not love what is love? I never quite thought of that, but that's That's interesting.

Monica: We need a poem about that now too. It, it really is tied to everything you've, you've taught though about others, the acceptance, the curiosity, the making space for different lived experiences even in yourself, I think, And also the honoring the divinity in you. It's, you're right, it is harder to do for our.

Carol Lynn: it is. It.

Monica: But I often find the people who are hardest to be in relationship with are the ones who really do not have a relationship with themselves

Carol Lynn: Mm. Yeah, that makes, That certainly makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Monica: in the trying that it counts and the trying to love and accept ourselves. That's what really makes a difference. It's the trying I I actually want to bring this in with this beautiful new book that you've written. I absolutely loved the Love Map. You have a main character who goes through this inner journey of, of learning how to love.

Someone else in her life. But along the way, acceptance and love of herself is one of the important lessons that she learns. I want people to get the book and we'll talk more about the book itself, but I actually wanna first start by what inspired this because it's, it's not only a, a magnificent story, it's a magnificent allegory all.

Love and the deep development and stages we go through to become a loving person, and I wanted to know what that came from for you. Lived experience, ideas, sparks of of different stories, or how did it all come together for you?

Carol Lynn: Well, certainly all of the, the pieces that I have gathered here and here and here and here that, that have settled into, into what became this book, and for, for those who might be possibly able to, to see this is the, this is the cover, and I wanna make sure that they al also understand the, the subtitle. The Love Map subtitle, Saving Your Love Relationship, and incidentally Saving the World. Now, let's just give one minute to that idea of saving the world. We, you know, we, we all understand sort of the concept of the tipping point where something just boils and boils and boils and then it reaches as a certain place, and just like that.

So here, I'm suggesting, and, and the, the, the heroin in this story, Joanna, is, is told that That her ability to salvage and, and make perfect, as perfect as a human can, her own relationship is the tipping point and the whole world risks on her being able to do that, which theoretically every one of us could be that, you know, that little drop that overflows the fountain. So, but the main thing that we look at here is Joanna saving her own love relationship. That, you know, it was just glorious. She fell in love and it was just transformative, everything. Beautiful, wonderful. And then about three years in, she, she sees this meme that says The Wagon of love breaks under the burden of life. And that is just so true. You know, the stuff of life, the crap of life just climbs into the wagon and before long you know it, it's is. There's often a, a breakdown.

So in, in this story she is, she is called by her employer Google to, to go to Jerusalem on a, a fact finding mission. And there she, she's involved in a, a bomb accident in a cafe, and she has a, subsequently, she has a, a visionary experience in which her, her higher self is present and leads her through this hero's journey of how she can and must save her love relationship. By following the map, Joanna is told there is a map. You don't have to just flail around saying, Where am I?

What do I do next? How do I, because all of our philosophical theories sort of have the same kind of flow, but in, in the the system that we know as the chakra. And that I, I only used the word chakra, I think three times here because I like to call these, these seven areas, the, the, the kingdoms. So we, Joanna goes through each one of these kingdoms to learn what it is that, that, that personal and relationship and even civilization development.

Evolution is all about,

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Carol Lynn: and, and she does. And it, I think, well, you asked how I came up with this, what I I have always been very just so curious about spirituality and what, what has proven to be true through the centuries from different ways of thinking. And as I did a little study about the, the chakra system and, and read an especially powerful book, I thought, Wow, you know, this, this really is a map that relationships can fall to make it easier because we, we just flail around.

Say, Oh, it's too hard. It's too random, but it's not random. There, there is this map with, you know, the, the, the, the first chakra being the one of survival.

Monica: Mm.

Carol Lynn: And in, in our relationships, that's what we do. We look for, we don't wanna be alone. We have to have a tribe. We have to have the other, someone to take care of us and our to take care.

But that's the, the first one. And then the second one is the, the area of reproduction, sexuality, creativity. And, and this should be. And is for many, many people, just a delicious experience, but often in, in, especially in a marriage relationship that yes, really clogged up and, and religion and teach various kinds of teaching.

Get in the way of seeing that as, as a, a beautiful and essential and celebratory experience the sexuality in a, in a relationship, a safe relationship, and then moving up into the third. And Joanna is shown not only how civilization does all this, but she's shown how her relationship. Developed this way, and then we get into what, where she is personally stuck, where most of us are personally stuck and where absolutely civilization is stuck, which is in the third kingdom, the abdomen.

Whose contribution because it's a great, we, we can't do without it. It, it gives us a lot. It's where stuff happens, where we make things happen. Where civilization has created, you know, all of the, the technology that you and I are using right now and, and where a couple starts building, builds a home, builds a family, But the, the, the.

Challenge in this relationship is that if it becomes the strongest one, power gets too powerful and, and the fire that's necessary here. See, fire can warm, but fire can burn. And when there is too much personal fire going on here, that leaves us the selfishness. This, this kingdom is not working properly when it's my will over your will.

And, and that's where Joanna sees that she has aired in that direction, that she, she has to have things her way and all of us know that our way is the best way. So she understands that that is where she is stuck. And in order to salate her relationship, I mean, in order to save the world. She has to climb those few inches from the abdomen up to the heart, which is the fourth kingdom, and this is the place where spirit and body meet.

This is the place where God operates for us, where we operate. For God, for, for one another. This is the place of love. So that, that is generally the, the map. And of course then we have the higher ones that I don't spend much, much time on. But our business right now in the world and in in our relationships is to take with us the energy of all of these lower kingdoms.

Especially take the energy of the, of the, the abdomen of the power and utilize it, purify it, and use it to magnify the heart and to, to, to, to live in the heart and utilize everything below is. That's all we need to do, Monica. That's it. That's all. That's simple, right?

Monica: Well, you know what adds to this too, is. The guide being herself and it being her higher self, which really resonated with the work that I do with women. We actually do a ton of what I call identity work, but really it is learning who that higher self is and trying to align our lives and our realities more with that higher self.

And I loved seeing how Joanna. Built that relationship between where she was and her higher self and how she worked towards it. I was curious what your thoughts are on both that, you know, the story part of this, but also how it applies to the larger discussion we've been having about love of others also stems from being able to love and accept ourselves and the higher self as two, two being part of that equation.

Carol Lynn: Sure. And, and as you say all that, what I'm, I'm thinking is, you know, this higher self. Is not an other, it's, it's a layer of, of who, when, when we are functioning at our best, we are

Monica: Yeah.

Carol Lynn: functioning as our higher selves. And So just realizing, and I think one of the important things that I say as, as, as Joanne is learning all this is do not think that you are a part from God.

You are a part of God. And, and so here we have this, this, this little human frail very often. Angry Joanna, realizing her higher self is, is so much wiser and better. And, and, and then actually if we were to move up and up and up and up, we get to this thing that we call God. And you know, we, we don't even have to be religious to understand this.

 I choose to word, use the word God because you add one more o and it, it's good. So, and I, I'm getting lost here in some of my own personal enthusiasm

Monica: This, No, this is what I'm here for.

Carol Lynn: the high, the higher self. And, and being our, our, our really, our, our connection to, to our creator and, and trusting our.

Our higher self and, and recognizing, recognizing when we're acting with and from our, our higher self, which would be really living in the kingdom of love, living in the heart, recognizing when we're doing that. And then of course recognizing when we have fallen, fallen, those six inches from the heart back into the abdomen of power.

I will make this decision the way that I want it to, to be. And you, you will, you will accept that. Yeah, there, there's just so much here.

Monica: There really is.

Carol Lynn: This, this whole thing can take us in so many directions, but the direction is always upward.

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Carol Lynn: Upward. And, and when we realize that, Oh, oh boy, I just fell out of my heart, down to my place of power where I've gotta have it my way no matter what. When we see the value of knowing that we have a map,

Is, we can see it visually.

We can even feel it viscerally. And, and we, we know what it feels like when we are in our heart. We know what love feels like, Giving it and taking it. We know what, what the, but the whole business of goodness and kindness is, is about because that is where. The heart is, and when we recognize that, Oops, I just fell, I just became so angry.

Well, sometimes I do, I I go around slamming doors. I, I don't hurt people.

Monica: Yeah.

Carol Lynn: I have to, I, I take out, Oh, I shouldn't have confessed, but I.

Monica: Oh, I love hearing this. Yeah, please.

Carol Lynn: So, and, and, and just acknowledging that I have fallen out of my heart into my, See, we need our gut. The gut is the abdomen. And when, when gut and heart work together, nothing is impossible.

Monica: Hmm.

Carol Lynn: We need gut and heart to make every wonderful thing happen. But, but when we, when we lose, The heart and just fall down into the gut and have to make things be our way. The, the, the point is to recognize that

Monica: Yes.

Carol Lynn: and even, you know, in, in these times that I just mentioned and, and they really, they are not, Not very often, but they happen.

Even, even when I recognize, Oh, I have fallen out of the heart down here into the place of my will, over your will I cannot immediately jump back up. It, it, it's, it's hard know. We have to all go through a process of, you know, calming down and recognizing. And, and then just sitting with the question of how would love handle this difficult situation?

Because when we handle our difficult situations from the third kingdom, which is we'll do it my way, I, I know better than anybody when we have to do it that way, it's just not gonna work. So to, to see it clearly that we fell from here to here. And the, the way to arise is to ask ourselves the question, What would love do right now?

What would love do? And as we are calm enough and, and sufficiently experienced in our seeing our own emotional setup. Then, then we can, we can do whatever's necessary. We can apologize or we can say, Hey, look, could we revisit that, that argument that we had and, and try to do it with a little different energy.

 Can, can you imagine, Monica, if, if everybody in our country who is in in a decision making position, If they were to insist that they may have their conversations, fourth Kingdom to Fourth Kingdom with everybody they have to negotiate with, or even I, I'll, I'll, I'm, I will maintain in my fourth kingdom of the heart, even though the person I'm negotiating with seems not able to do that.

Boy, that's, that's pretty much an impossible thing. However, we have been commanded to do that by whatever highest spiritual beings we have in our consciousness. Most of us have Jesus as one of our. Major guides and, and he made no bones about this. Love your enemy. Love the stranger at the gate. Love everybody.

Stay in your heart and I the use of the word heart. In all spiritual languages means love really. It has helped me a lot just to have this visual of who I am, my development from here, to here, to here, and here's where I wanna live. Accessing all of the good energy from the, the, the kingdoms, the cha residue law.

That's the answer to everything, and we're just here to keep practicing and practicing. But if everyone practiced, we could change this world pretty instantly.

Monica: It's, it's connecting back to my big audacious goal for this podcast is to change the world by changing women, but when with changing women, to me, it's more about a reconnection to self and I can still clearly see it's a re reconnection to love what you talked about, love and acceptance. Compassion for self, for others, it is a higher plane.

It did make me think that the times where I feel like I've been most able to step into my higher self to like really embody the higher self and not it just be, you know, a different figure or guide in my life, but just be me has been when I've been in relation with others on that. On that kingdom that you talked about on that, Of love, and I'd actually like to end by hearing, if you can think of an experience where that's been the case for you, where you feel like you've been able to embody your higher self because of you choosing to be in relation with someone at that level.

Carol Lynn: Of the things that we encounter in all these are the small things. So I, I am living here with a, with, with a son of mine who is a wonderful human being and there are some challenges there. And yesterday morning, I, I went downstairs and I. John, I I need to apologize for something that I said last night because this is what I said, and I, I did not mean what it sounded like.

And I am deeply grateful for you and this is how I would, I want to reframe the thing that we were talking about so that and, and, and I, I just, I, I just need to apologize for the way that I said it. And, and that helped me a lot just to, to, to make that statement. And it, it helped the thing that we needed to address. So that was a very small thing, but it, it came from realizing that I had really stumbled that, that I had said something that was not warm. That that was the, the fire that burns rather than the fire that, that, that warms and having recognized that, I, I just made that little trip up from the abdomen up to the heart, and, and just said a simple thing that that changed the, the conversation.

So since you asked for, for a personal confession from that, that is my personal confession for the day. Monica

Monica: Well, I'm glad we got that checked off your list. Now you don't have to have another, but it helps

Carol Lynn: Yeah.

Monica: because honestly, Carolyn, I think, you know, when you talk about this love map and, and how Joanna learns that she's this drop, that can be that tipping point for the world. It's the smallest of things, the smallest of ways that we choose to embody our higher selves.

It's the smallest of moments. That are those drops too, that are the tipping points in our relationships and then our communities and then our world. And you know, when I brought up this topic to you about how to deeply love and accept others, including ourselves, and I, I feel like you faced some inner resistance to that.

Think you knew you didn't. I don't know, maybe you didn't think you were worthy of that, but I just wanna point out, to me it's not. The amazing plays and books and books of poetry you've written. It's not your big acts of activism, which have helped so many and continue to help so many to me.

It's what I see in your day to day life. The, the walks you take with people, the conversations that you're willing to have, the phone calls you pick up, the emails you send, it's the small drops. That is how I've been able to see. This in you maybe more than we can, you can see in yourself.

Carol Lynn: Well, thank you for that, Monica. Yes. And I, I, I, I do have opportunities that just stumble into my path that, that give me those, those great opportunities. To to be with people in what sometimes turns out to be important ways. Yeah.

Monica: And it, and it is, and, and you did that even with me. I didn't know who you. The first several times we had conversations, I just knew this lovely woman was really curious. That's a word that's come up a lot today about my life, about my perspective, genuinely interested in in me, and

Carol Lynn: Yeah. And I, I, I remember poking around and saying, Ooh, this is a beautiful, interesting woman. I, I, I need to know more about, about her. So I, I did, I, I, I put myself in your path and . Oh, and look what lovely things have come of it,

Monica: I'm so grateful that you did, and that's what's taught me a lot. I mean, Carol Lynn, if I were to, to distill this whole conversation, I mean, let's just start with curiosity for women. Let's just start by being curious, curious about this map. Curious about our fumbles, our failures within it, curious about what our higher self can look like and what it can look like to be in that love kingdom.

And curious about others, about their experiences, their divinity, their wisdom their perspective, their possible love. I mean, that can be as simple as starting there. That level of curiosity. Do you have anything to add to that?

Carol Lynn: I think you said that very, very well, Monica. Yeah. To, to be, well, to be curious maybe even about ourselves. How would it feel if we were a little less judgemental? I wonder how it would feel if I gave up this strange i I idea. How, what would it feel if I, if I were open to new thinking about this?

Monica: Mm-hmm.

Carol Lynn: And, you know, be before we end, I, I, I really, because I love this little book so much that we're talking about the love map. I, I wanna make sure that people know that, that this is available now on Amazon or, or please go to my website, just my name carollynnp.com. You can get any of my books. Personally autographed to you, but there, there are so many things there that I wish we had time to talk about.

You know that this most re recent book prior to the Love Map Finding Mother God is such a wonderful invitation for women and for everybody to, to understand that the love that brought us. Into being here is not just God, the masculine, but God, the feminine as well. And it, once we get a grasp of that, it, it helps us a lot to.

It helps women to look in the mirror and see the divine in them in a way that they had not when they were never allowed the concept that our creator is a perfect balance of femaleness and maleness. And you and I may have talked about that an awful lot, and maybe we should talk about it more.

Monica: I would love that. And, and I would say those, the two together, the back to back, they're almost companion pieces to each other and in different ways. I would say, Both are, you know, touching and deep. But I, I do wanna just emphasize the love map because it's new here. You know, it's that charming, entertaining, like you want to read it kind of book.

The story is so beautifully

Carol Lynn: it, it's a, it's a fun book, isn't it?

Monica: It is a fun book. And I, but on the flip side too, that's what I wanna bring back is it's surprising. About how deeply it can teach us things and be applied in our real life too. That's why I think it's even just more of like this allegory and, and the charming story too together.

So I wanna really make sure we push that, the love map. I'll link to it and I'll link to anything that we, that we want from you. Carolyn, I'm grateful for you that you'd be willing to take this this hour with us and with me. It's, it's really special and. I know that this can be a drop for many of the women who are listening the drop that helps them have that tipping point.

They need to love others better in their lives and to love themselves better. So thank you, Carolyn.

Carol Lynn: Oh, I, I hope so. And thank you, Monica. I love you and I appreciate your excellent work.

Monica: I love you too.

Carol Lynn: Ask me again. What was your specific question?

Monica: I don't even know if I can remember my own, my own question.